Jacobs latest post has got me thinking, this perpetuation of the tznius patrol has gone too far. With the latest in tyrannical Rabbis beyond the letter of the law forcing their chumras on everyone else fiasco at the shietle store. He caved and I don’t blame him, but if people really cared they wouldn’t shop there and the free market would have taken over. My issue is this when will someone say, hey let the women have some freedom?
I have my theories, but my one theory that seems to be happening slowly but surely is this. At some point women will be banned from the public sphere. After all, many men merely think that women are only vehicles for reproduction and making the chulent- which seems to be made mostly by men anyway.
To ban women from the public sphere would be quite easy really. They have been banned from doing many things any way and there is a growing movement of women who want to wear burquas- though I think they only want to wear them to hide their I-pods and blackberries. Think about it, all women could merely work from home at any of those jobs located in the back of your local alternative newspaper or penny saver. You know the type “assemble CD cases from home” or “stuff envelopes” or medical biller” or any of those probably fake “I made 5k this past week from home” jobs. I am sure there is a market for some sort of home business within the charedi community.
How about streimel assembly or twisting the fibers to make gartels, maybe they can put the Ungers or Leibers stickers on top of the brand name products that they ensure have the extra hechsherim that many people feel they need. What about baby stroller assembly, big market for that, although it strikes me that with all the women at home- they may not wheel their kids around any more.
The problem with women being banned completely is that were next. The chumras wil switch to the men’s sections, because as well know, tyrannical leaders must appear to be busy at work conjuring great chumras and bans- because if they weren’t folks would be wondering what they paid them for. Its kind of like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, if their people figured out that getting out of the ghetto were best- issues may come up, such as these guys being out of their jobs.
Other issues with banning may come up, such as how to get the kinderlach to cheder and the maidelach to cooking and birthing breathing classes. If I can think of these ideas sure as hell those guys that know all of shas can. I have already realized that underground passageways will be built so no man, except for her husband may gaze upon her, regardless of how bulletproof her stockings and burqua actually were. This allows for grocery shopping, exercise and taking out the garbage. It allows the men to have the reign over the streets- where with all the gay protests and shabbos riots it is no place for a women.
Coming soon…a compilation of all my posts documenting the recent rash of charedi chumra patrol legislation.
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{ 20 comments… read them below or add one }
….they should ban blogs!
Actually I think they have, because the internet was banned as a whole.
They’ll find ways to “market” their women in a “kosher” way, since they want money and they don’t want to work.
Hesh, do you know that in New Square and parts of Monroe, men and women walk on different sides of the street?
In reality it does solve an halachic problem: it is assur to walk four amos in back of a women, and it is also assur to walk between two women (the same is sith two dogs, sorry i had to throw that in).
B”H
Just a few comments:
1) Now matter how “equal” men and women are, let’s just understand one thing. This whole mixed events thing and men and women hanging and chatting is a Western/Modern thing, not an authentically Jewish thing. Just be honest, and say that’s not for you. (So called “American Haredim” in Israel are just as guily of this misconception than M/O.)
2) Modernism does not equal Torah-ism.
3) Westernism does not equal Torah either.
4) I don’t mind Western and ultra-modern Jews AT ALL. What I do mind is Jews who are clueless and pretend that ANYthing modern and/or western is compatible with Torah.
5)…like a woman who doesn’t want to cover her hair,…don’t pretend that’s OK. It’s not. Just say you’re not covering your hair. Don’t make up some weird thing where YOU say it’s oppressive and no longer necessary in modern society. Just be honest, and say you’re not doing it. It is NOT in line with halacha. (I’m not talking about women new to Torah and are going slowly, of course.)
I don’t care for hypocrisy, not from the left, not from the right, and not from the middle.
I acknowledge that there are plenty of problems in the “humrah du jour” segment of our “family.” I just want to make sure that M/O’s also take a good look in the mirror and acknowledge that they have their own issues,…and yes might even be able to learn something from super conservative Haredim, as they would expect Haredim to be able to learn something from the M/O communities.
Hiemish in BP I know- and I think its great- because that is a community that when you move there they have their own rules for the kehal- but they do not try and make others from outside communities follow that and from the folks I have met that live there- it is what they want. I am bothered when chumras are tried on the rest of the community- first of all we as Jews should be in the business fo acceptance- regardless of your halachic adherence and try and get more members into the tribe of orthodoxy.
Ben Yehuda: I agree one hundred percent- I have this theory that the difference between torah Jews and modern Jews is the fact that Torah Jews regardless of their hashkafic level admit that they are being makel- or not following halacha at all. I know plenty of people that admit covering their hair is too hard- just like plenty of others like myself admit that I rarely say the bedtime shema, or brachos achronos. We know we are wrong, but we have laziness issues, or lack of emunah.
BUT then ypu have these folks that deny that it is halacha at all. They say. “Oh thats for the ultra orthodox” but it isn’t. Hair covering, benching after bread and not having proms at your local yeshiva high school are all blatant halacha.
My wife says: Now that the owner “caved”, the Rosh yeshiva should do the right thing and promote the store and demand people buy from him. He has an obligation to seek a parnasah for another jew.
PS. We’ll miss Jacob, he’s moving!
the holy agooda tried banning blogs seperately from the internet, but I haven noticed shafran and co. drop out of cyberspace.
Ben Yehuda,
I totally understand what you are saying…I also wish that people who don’t keep certain mitzvot would be intellectually honest about what they are doing or not doing. That’s not what happening here.
The people who object to the sheitel store ban are saying that this went WAY beyond the scope of tznius. Banning a woman’s face is not an expression of tznius. It’s not even a chumrah. It’s just plain wrong. What is un-tznius about a woman’s face? Please see my post(s) on this for further explanation of my objection to this.
-WG
B-Y: “This whole mixed events thing and men and women hanging and chatting is a Western/Modern thing, not an authentically Jewish thing. Just be honest, and say that’s not for YOU.”
(emphasis mine)
I’m not sure what you mean by “you.” For whom, exactly, is is not good? I mean, it’s certainly fine for a great deal of people, is it not?
People crack me up. Separate the sexes is Jewish? Actually dates back to when we were all Bnei Yisrael and predates Judaism. Actually, probably all the tribes living in the Levant seperated the sexes. Just happens to be that our tribe survived. The first reference to this seperation is in the Talmud (Sukkah 51b and carries over to 52a) where it discusses when observing the simchat beit hashoevah in the second Temple.
But what really cracks me up on this and many other matters that are used sanctimoniously, is that the preachers just say it is all Halacha. Quick to call it Halacha, but never seem to quote the sources.
Yo upstairs mon, my blog is over there—->
I was going to point out that banning women altogether would mean that the men would have to go to work and manage all outside errands, but someone beat me to it.
Interesting post.
Hesh,
Maybe it will come full circle?! The women will be so hidden that they can be not so heavily dressed and not even the husband will see.
thus, only when she’s niddah she has to be super duper covered or when the husband calls her for something. Hmmmm….
Gila and Miriam good points. I usre as hell don’t want to have to give up my kollel job. But I would love to be able to have my family eat friday night meals in their underwear- so who knows.
B”H
Heshman: Yeah, I know. I’m trying to be fair. No one’s perfect. I’m far from it, and don’t want to be the pot calling the kettle black. But, like anyone, I have pet peeves, and those include hypocrisy.
Making humroth are silly, if they’re just made for the sake of making humroth. I don’t think these necessarily are. I think they’re possibly made out of reactionary fear, not the way to go. but as long as we have the reactionary and extreme elements of the left calling for the canceling of brith milah, and dismantling of the entirety of Israel, this makes for a bizarre form of balance, albeit an unhealthy one.
I think the main problem has nothing to do with tzni’uth, or being frumer than thou. It’s about letting hashqafah get in the way of determination of the truthful or authentic halachic. This criticism is for both the conservative and the liberal segments of our people.
Webgirl: I understand your point. I was speaking about the general issue which has been makin gits way around the JBlogosphere. Interestingly enough, the Ramba”m does indeed mention veils (along with hair covering for unmarried women under certain situations. Anyone yelling at the Ramba”m yet?). I will go look for it later, as I’m sure you will all expect me to prove it.
Jersey: I meant collective “you.” I think the individual who say that a certain inyan is not the halacha (even though it is by most all authorites) might want to say “I’m not ready yet,” or “I don’t care about halacha (has wehallilah)” instead of pretending that’s it’s not halacha, doing enough pilpul until it just disappears.
Ben Yehuda,
Look no disrespect intended toward the Rosh Yeshiva or the Rambam for that matter. While I understand that they have acquired more Torah than I could ever hope to, it doesn’t leave them immune to criticism of their decisions. I don’t do it lightly. I know the veil is a part of the ancient concept of tznius (i.e. Rivkah, and every Jewish bride), but there is a reason that the veil didn’t come into ordinary use in modern times. Also keep in mind the place in which the Rambam lived…the respectable women (both Jewish and non-Jewish) in 12th century Spain and Egypt probably wore veils as part of their regular dress. I’m not being heretical here; this is not a d’oraisa concept I’m dismissing. The veil and any sort of face covering has no place in the tznius of 5768. The Rambam may advocate it, but he also advocated eating fatty meats as a matter of health.
Women’s faces in any form are not un-tznius. Sorry, not buying it.
Work from home? I’ve always been curious about the ”Smoke Pot Get Paid” ads in the Voice.And with all we have to put up with from men,it could help.Hey,has anyone thought of just banning men?
Yes and I don’t like it. haha