≑ Menu

Is taking a shidduch to Starbucks too cliche?

Apparently you cannot take a girl on a shidduch to Starbucks anymore, this is what I learned this weekend. I assumed that it was a no go based on the fact that the only place one can go and sit down in Washington Heights for a cup of coffee is at the starbucks on 181st street and it is a good possibility that every single frummy in the heights will be in that establishment at one time of day or another, and that any girl dating expects to be whisked away from the little Dominican Republic they live in.

I have asked some other people after finding out through my own avenues that Starbucks is off limits for shidduch dating. My date, after I said “don’t worry we wont wind up at starbucks” was adamant that she wished not to wind up sipping a white chocolate mocha with the green logo on it.

I have spent many a date in starbucks, wondering if after four hours we have overstayed our welcome. I have never wondered if the girl was enjoying the date, simply because it is a mathematic likelihood that a shidduch will end up at starbucks, most neighborhoods lack the requisite hip coffee shop with worn and miss matched chairs, and most neighborhoods lack any place to sit and have a conversation- and so starbucks comes into the picture.

I understand its generic, and I understand that first dates offer time for first impressions, but I am not into all that, I simply want to talk and preferably not spend a cent, though starbucks ruins that, its still cheaper then pizza, and seems more classy.

Starbucks also provides many items for nervous types to play with as they fumble for conversation on their dates. You can rip the little hot cup slips, play with your straw and continuously suck in air and left over cappuccino flavored ice cubes that have since melted down and become brown tinted water. I was once at starbucks and my date in her nervousness could have been compared to an office shredder, she shredded everything at the table without realizing that I thought it was hilarious. She did it subconsciously.

I understand this is likely to turn into one of those fights about where first dates should take place. I like to keep things simple, like a walk in the park, a stroll through The Met, or a day hiking- but with the sour whether I like starbucks, would rather a chic coffee shop with tight pants wearing hipsters and loads of gays, but most neighborhoods do not provide this sort of amenity.

So is Starbucks a good date spot or not?

{ 78 comments… add one }
  • ~ Sarah ~ February 12, 2008, 5:52 AM

    It’s ok for a casual date or meeting but it isn’t the most original thing – maybe it’s TOO simple for some girls for a first date location. Maybe it indicates lack of imagination to them, maybe these girls need to be impressed by some grand plan?

    Personally, when I was in the USA, places like starbucks and coffee bean were just convenient, open late and there are enough of them that you can choose to go to one where you won’t meet half the community. So while it’s not original or unusual or fancy, it IS convenient, cheap (-ish), cheerful atmosphere with distractions to talk about and you’d think that people would be used to these type of places and therefore feel more comfortable and relaxed than some uppity hotel lobby. And being comfortable mean better conversation which means a more enjoyable date.

    Date or otherwise, I’m happy to have a nice chat with good company over a caramel, skim, extra hot extra strong 3 shot venti latte. And isn’t that what counts?

  • menashe February 12, 2008, 6:01 AM

    What’s wrong with hotel lobbies? If you happen to be near manhattan anyways.

  • heshman February 12, 2008, 6:04 AM

    Never been a hotel lobby guy, I save that for the yeshiva crowd, I usually do walks around central park or museums, but apparently starbucks is out, so I am on a mission to see if it really is- or maybe to get some other ideas.

    I have been to the tea lounge, but parking in Park Slope sucks and its not much different then a regular old bucks

  • Amy B February 12, 2008, 12:05 PM

    IDK I was always a “lets find a good place to sit and talk for 4 hours” kind of girl. Unfortunatly this was before I was Baal Teshuva and back then most of my dates just wanted to go back to my place and screw, so I never really had the starbucks date. But I wanted to!

  • Ben-Yehudah February 12, 2008, 1:03 PM


    I say, pick a landmark for where to meet up. Get her description first. Then observe her for several minutes to get a sense of her. If she’s not for you then call her later and tell her how long you waited for her, and how upset you are about it. πŸ˜‰

    You don’t return the hot cup slips in tact for future re-use?!


    How environmentally incorrect of you!!!!!

    Starbucks is a huge “chain,” and thus evil. Stick with the hip coffehouses, the non-trendier, non-poserish the better.

  • Chaya February 12, 2008, 1:05 PM

    …or you can pick another starbucks that is not in da heights?

  • Big Wigger February 12, 2008, 1:58 PM

    Hotel lobbies suck!

  • Big Wigger February 12, 2008, 2:00 PM

    ja, I took someone to a cafe and she spent the evening tearing up any bits of paper lying around.

    No second date for u, o’ nurotic one.

  • Big Wigger February 12, 2008, 2:02 PM

    Personally, I think a stroll in the park or on the beach is the best.

    No Coney Island boardwalk on Motzei Shabbos though, way too many frummies on dates there.

  • Left Brooklyn and never looked back February 12, 2008, 4:22 PM

    Why all this nonsense of where to go? Just go over to the girls house, chat for five minutes, if she seems nice meet her folks (also gives you a chance to look around; is the place a mess? dishes in the sink? how large are their mezuzot? are the mezuzot on everywhere even where there is no hlachic requirment for one?) the pop the question. If not, find an excuse to leave (ie. I’m double parked and I am afraid I will get a ticket) and move on!

  • heshman February 12, 2008, 5:15 PM

    Hey Amy- its still that way in the frum community- they are just willing to get married for the screw- or at least bring their tefilin along so they could make it into a starbucks tefilin date.

    Brighton beach boardwalk dates huh? I love watching shidduch dates, maybe I’ll have to check it out. I want to start a site Voyeur Shidduchs- you know hidden cameras on the date.

    Left Brooklyn I may actually use that for a future post.

  • chnyock February 12, 2008, 5:33 PM

    for the chick that’s wild enough about you to get hitched will go along with you anywhere you desire. did you ever try having a date in mendelsons? or was it just too noisy?

  • Anonymous February 12, 2008, 6:46 PM

    not as good as the staten island ferry.

  • Left Brooklyn and never looked back February 12, 2008, 6:58 PM

    Thanks Hesh. Which part?

  • Leah February 12, 2008, 8:00 PM

    Funny story. My friend linked me to your site telling me that she thinks I would like you. (Because every frum girl is trained to look at every single guy and think, “Would I date him?” If the answer is no, you then have to think, “Which of my single friends can I pawn him off on?”

    Low and behold, I come to your site, and I realize, I’ve already dated you! And you did not take me to Starbucks. But probably wasn’t the best date anyway. I was not ready to be dating at 20. So, sorry for a bad date four years ago!

  • heshman February 12, 2008, 8:10 PM

    You dated me? Was it for marriage purposes- or for getting in the sack purposes. The only girl I dated 4 years ago was some girl from Florida into punk rock- my first shidduch date and I was totally not ready for marriage.

  • Leah February 12, 2008, 8:18 PM

    That would be me!

  • heshman February 12, 2008, 8:21 PM

    Dude!!! That is the craziest Jewish Geography of all time. Craziness man, I have met a lot of people through this here blog but rarely does someone have the status of being my first ever shidduch date-

  • Leah February 13, 2008, 12:14 AM

    Well, there really can only be one, unless you tell all the girls that.

  • Left Flatbush February 13, 2008, 12:51 AM

    Hey Hesh, what are you waiting for … ask her out. This could be interesting!!

  • Big Wigger February 13, 2008, 1:28 AM


    Fat shiz yo

  • abandoning eden February 13, 2008, 1:53 AM

    I love coffee shops for first dates…it gives you a chance to talk, and you don’t have a huge fancy dinner thing or something. I don’t know, i always feel trapped on first dates if it’s at a dinner or something where i know i have to spend a given amount of time with someone, but at a coffee shop it’s more casual and if I don’t like someone I can make up a reason and leave earlier. I also don’t like people spending a lot of money on me on a first date, cause then i feel like they expect something in return…like a second date at least. πŸ™‚ Once I went to some dessert place in NYC (my favorite dessert?) and then we went bowling at Chelsea piers, and I swear the dude spent like $200 on me. It made me super uncomfortable to tell him I didn’t want to see him again (he was a lot older than me and super boring and had a kid…i was like 21 at the time).

    Yeah in sum, I think coffee shops are a great first date, but you’ll probably end up with people who are like me- not looking to be impressed by people buying them expensive dinners or whatever. (which i think is good) πŸ™‚

    although if you can find any coffee shop that’s not starbucks I would totally go for that…just cause i like those local business unique little coffee shops a lot more. πŸ™‚ also starbucks kinda stresses me out, everyone who goes there is always so tense.

  • Left Flatbush February 13, 2008, 2:06 AM

    tense? at Starbucks? either it is the caffeine or the shiduch dates.

  • Powermetal Head February 13, 2008, 2:57 AM

    I cant see what would be wrong with Starbucks as a first date. Second date you might wanna boost the expense by a notch. We’re obviously talking about normal daters because frummies can find any reason why its not acceptable, maybe just the chalav sdam issue. But for some reason no one is concerned about the dishes being toveled at many of these “lobbies” and whether that $5 drink is really halacha approved. Funny someone mentioned the coney island boardwalk. It’s a summer dating scene mainly, also considered very “iffy” because it’s hard to keep eyes on your date when there’s an abundance of russian prostitute ass surrounding you.

  • heshman February 13, 2008, 3:16 AM

    Dude I have never seen anyone worth looking at for more then three seconds on the Coney Island boardwalk- sometimes you d see some real strange and ugly people to make brachas on though.

  • Powermetal Head February 13, 2008, 3:31 AM

    Not sure what season you’ve been there, but in the summer its crazy. It’s like shulamis crossbreeding with hooters. Bikini is appropriate attire there at any time of the day. Occasionally you can catch that bikini’d tichel hat mom, always walking with her 12 year old daughter who must have a t-shirt over her bathing suit. Never know where your principal might be spending her off-hours.

  • heshman February 13, 2008, 4:37 AM

    Dude that is a brilliant description, the 12 year olds must always wear t-shirts while the moms skank around.

  • Big Wigger February 13, 2008, 4:48 AM

    Yo yo!

    Don’t be dissin’ ma hometown!

    I had many good times at the beach there.

  • A February 13, 2008, 4:54 AM

    Unless you want to chance your date’s heel getting stuck in between the boards and breaking off, her falling down and getting blood all over her clothes from the cuts and abrasions from said fall, please don’t plan on taking a date to the boardwalk until you see what kind of shoes she’s wearing.

  • Anita February 13, 2008, 5:18 AM

    I agree with abandoning eden. I love coffee dates. They’re so casual and casual is just so much more relaxing. Plus, like ae said, I always feel guilty that I may be making him spend a lot (even if I am considering a second date)
    There are the rules that he is supposed to order first, and you order something either of equal or lesser cost to his order. But then, these rules are made up by girls and are probably never told to the guys because I have yet to have a date in which the guy didn’t insist I order first.

    Anyway, basically any date will in some way be cliche, unless he really goes all out, and most likely that would be too expensive. So why not just stick to starbucks or something similar?

  • Powermetal Head February 13, 2008, 6:10 AM

    I think it goes with some weird mentality that like once you’re taken anyway, it’s not so sinful to show off the rishus hayachid. But your 12 year old daughter isn’t exactly anyones rishus yet, so she must set aside her undeveloped sprouting nipples like a Ben torah separates his Teruma, and “save” them for marriage. Hence, the appropriate covering. Never a band t-shirt, usually GAP or her brother’s H&M shirt that doesn’t fit anymore.

  • Jack February 13, 2008, 7:07 AM

    The zoo is always a good choice. No, really.

  • heshman February 13, 2008, 4:04 PM

    The zoo is a good choice, c’mon people some of the article was meant to provide me with better date spots in the NYC metro area.

  • jennthejewess February 13, 2008, 6:53 PM

    Omg the heels at the boardwalk is so true….been there done that and almost killed myself- heels and crappy boardwalks dont mix.

  • jennthejewess February 13, 2008, 6:54 PM

    i like the Barnes & Noble with the starbucks inside. u can talk abt the books and have a drink.

  • heshman February 13, 2008, 6:57 PM

    Jenn the B&N idea is a great one which I have done many a time.

  • Sarah February 13, 2008, 7:10 PM

    A number of years ago in Baltimore, a guy took me to a pool hall/bar type place – but it wasn’t at all a sleazy place. We made small talk and shot a few rounds of pool, then sat down and had drinks and talked some more. The place also had a jukebox with a lot of classic rock, so we picked out some music also. The best part was that it was not in the Jewish neighborhood, so we didn’t see anyone there who we knew! It was a lot of fun, but maybe an activity geared more towards more “modern” couples.

  • I'm Baaaack!! February 13, 2008, 8:45 PM

    I think a great place for a date is the Winter Gardens in the city. Its a beautiful place to walk around and enjoy the scenery. Its classy yet cheap, and the girls love it. Check it out: http://www.worldfinancialcenter.com/

  • JoJo February 13, 2008, 9:57 PM

    Hey, Leah. I’m from Florida and into punk. πŸ˜‰

  • Ben-Yehudah February 13, 2008, 11:32 PM


    Hey! Who else thinks that Heshy should ask Leah out?

  • Reader February 13, 2008, 11:43 PM

    PowerMetal Head, that was not so pleasant to read.

    And Anita and anyone out there who is looking for a non-cliche date- ever considered actually DOING something on a date? Like going to a class, painting, writing something together, learning something together? I think dates where you just talk are boring.

  • Leah February 14, 2008, 12:17 AM

    Jo-Jo, you wouldn’t happen to also like TMBG, would you? I’m trying to find ANYONE to go with me, and no one wants to.

  • JoJo February 14, 2008, 12:52 AM

    Actually, yes. One of the few bands my dad managed to get me into. But I don’t live in Florida anymore. Sorry. πŸ™

  • I'm Baaack!! February 14, 2008, 1:19 AM

    I think a great place for a date is the Winter Gardens in the city. Its a beautiful place to walk around and enjoy the scenary. Its classy yet cheap and the girls love it.

    Check it out:
    www. worldfinancialcenter .com

  • Anonymous February 14, 2008, 1:58 AM

    i think you have a good point about starbucks. im just thinking the coffee isnt kosher? or on dates does kosher go out the window?

  • ZK February 14, 2008, 2:34 AM

    A good date place in the Heights is a restaurant/bar called Bleu. It’s on 187th between Fort Washington and Pinehurst (at the top of the big stairs.)

    They have a more loungy area by the front where you can sit for as long as you like (they even have a couch if you are lucky enough to get it.) Order a beer (or coke I suppose) and sit and shmooze. For an evening first date its great and very convenient for girls who live in the Heights.

  • heshman February 14, 2008, 3:06 AM

    Wow great ideas, I have been to one place in the heights that was pretty nice, I think its called Hispanola- classy bar with tables right up the block from starbucks on 181.

    Doing stuff on a first date is kind of cool and kind of not, because the whole point is to get to know someone, I would rather not have the distraction of flying paint or learning? Learning what, like having a mishna brura seder or going to one of those paysach kron shiurim.

  • Anita February 14, 2008, 3:58 AM

    I wrote up a list of things to do on a date, I think they’re fairly responably priced too…I stayed away from “helicopter ride/cruise around the city” type things. πŸ™‚


  • toronto February 14, 2008, 2:49 PM

    I wound up at a starbucks on a shidduch date.. it all ended when she wanted cholov yisroel milk in her latte..

  • Reader February 14, 2008, 11:12 PM

    Learning anything you’re into- that is, if you’re into learning at all. Anything- it could be a history of the ten Tribes book, R’ Aryeh Kaplan, well- there is no dearth of ideas…

  • heshman February 14, 2008, 11:16 PM

    I just cannot imagine learning on a first date. I am into learning, I rock the koveah itim- but on a date? I have never heard of that.

  • abandoning eden February 17, 2008, 3:14 AM

    are you in Manhattan I’m assuming? Can you take a subway to chelsea? by 20-23rd street between 9th and 10th avenue (I believe) is about 20 different art galleries, and they are all 100% free to go to. They have different shows every month, and many of the top contemporary artists have shows there. You can just walk around from gallery to gallery on a sunday afternoon and spend $0 . I used to hang out there all the time when I was in college (my dorm was right near there), and I took more than one guy there for a first date (when they asked me what I wanted to do..which you could also do) πŸ™‚ The only problem (maybe? Again, not for me) is they have nudity of course and some of their stuff might be a bit controversial…

  • heshman February 17, 2008, 3:27 AM

    Nah not in Manhattan, grew up there though and many of the girls I tend to go out with- based on pure math happen to live in the city. Although I enjoy the BT’s from weird places best- they are hard to come by.

    Yes the nudity is problematic like any art. My buddy took his date to an open mic night and someone got up and did a poetic piece on orgasms- they left- but it was awkward to say the least.

  • Rach February 19, 2008, 4:33 AM

    So heshman, how long have you been dating, you seem like u know your stuff! You could make a career out of this…” You have reached the shidduch directory, press 1 to find out about places to take a girl on your first date, 2 to hear creative uncliche proposals or 3 to find places to buy ‘shabbos after the le’chaim flowers’. Please make your selection now or hold the line to speak to an operator about a specific shidduch issue….” and then they connect the person you YOU! Hows that for a career option… oh and then you give me a commission for creating a career for ya πŸ˜‰

  • M February 19, 2008, 6:15 AM

    Rach, that was cute.

  • heshman February 19, 2008, 12:48 PM

    If your from NY you undoubtedly know what 777-FILM is, or used to be when I was a kid. It was “Hello and welcome to Movie Phone.” So famous that a Sienfeld episode was devoted to it.

    Hello and welcome to shidduch phone. I like it, maybe I’ll do something with that. And by the way although I have dating “for marriage purposes for all of about 3 years, I have only been out with 15-20 girls. I am not that experienced, I just love to talk about it.

  • Rach February 20, 2008, 6:10 AM

    Nah i didnt grow up in Ny, im an Aussie

    Haha, i recon thats pretty experienced, 15-20 girls, then again if u look at all the singles in NYC you havent even made a dent on the shidduchim world. I guess its all relative, that would be a lot for someone who married the first girl they dated, but a little for someone who met 50 girls before finding the right one. My bro found his wife after about 20-30 girls, and he was ready to call it quits, but me and him, we’re like 2 sides of a coin! And then ive got a friend who met a guy one Thursday, they dated for 6 consecutive days, and he proposed to her the next thursday and their wedding is just around the corner. she makes me feel like a bubby cos shes 18 and im nearing 20. I seriously dont know if i would have the guts to do what shes doing, its kinda crazy, what do u guys think?
    And thanks for the compliment M πŸ˜‰

  • heshman February 20, 2008, 12:13 PM

    Well experienced in some communities and not in others. I guess it has spanned over several years and looking back I don’t think I was ever ready to get married- I still debate if I am- but realistically speaking- is anyone ever ready?

  • Rach February 20, 2008, 3:05 PM

    Honestly i dont think anyone is ever ready, i think u get married, and u just work out what to do, how to live, how to make edible dinners for your husband.. u know! When the right person comes along for you, you should just marry em, not spend time worrying about whether u are ready or not cos how can anyone be ready to live the rest of their life with someone and share everything with them, and love unconditionally, i believe marriage is a work in progress, not something you one day jump out of bed and say ‘I’M READY’ for.

  • utubefan February 20, 2008, 3:12 PM

    The Angelika. I posted this, but for some reason it’s not up. It’s a cafe with the option for an artsy film if she/you are into it. Also, there are some cute cafes on the Island (I’m from Queens). Back in the day, a creative guy could hop on the LIRR with you and wind up in Port Washington at a planned out cafe joint near the station. We went to one with live folk music once. Now, that is not a first date option because the train ride may be too much of a commitment and may scare her a bit.

  • heshman February 20, 2008, 5:01 PM

    Hey Rach thanks for the great comments. Utube- any comment with links in it gets must be moderated by me because I get too much spam.

  • s(b.) digs B-3 February 20, 2008, 8:10 PM

    an acquaintance on the board I’m on posted this, and I thought it was worth sharing. The thread topic was “a simple love.”

    re: simple love

    It is simple when you understand you are two different people. Not the same..but wanting the same things. Those are very different. I go about getting the things I want in a very different way that he does. But our end results are the same. And that’s what matters. I cant get caught up in his approach. I always remember that our souls and values are in line. That is the factor that counts. … This is my personal opinion.


    P.S. to utubefan: I really liked what you wrote about many soulmates. I believe that, too. I don’t think any one person can be/do everything in another person’s life, the same way no two parents can raise a child alone. That’s why we have aunts, uncles, ravs and mentors, and that’s why we’ve got good friends. (general we)

    To be all to any is too much to ask of any one person, I think. I do believe in monogamous marriage, though. I think one person can be a spouse. I just don’t think a spouse can be someone’s whole planet. I think it’s good to fall in love with a person who has people who are close to him(/her).

    I wouldn’t want to be with someone who would bail on his friends or family to hang out with me. I want to be with someone who is a good friend to his friends and family, ’cause I think a spouse is a friend, too.

    What is love without friendship? That’s having a pet. My cats aren’t my friends, but I love them. I don’t want to marry a cat or a dog. That would be silly.

  • s(b.) digs B-3 February 20, 2008, 8:34 PM

    d’oh. utubefan, I was referring to your comment on the piece on finding your bashert. all the threads combine …

  • Rach February 21, 2008, 4:28 AM

    i think that there are a couple of soul mates for each person, and that as you go up and down in levels of say frumness, your soul mate changes. But i do think that when u do find your soul mate, your spouse should be your whole world and also your best friend. Sure you can have other friends, and i think its healthy to have other friends for sure, but you should be able to share everything with your spouse and not NEED other people to share things with if you know what i mean. Your soul mate is the other half of your soul, they make you complete… What more could a person need? Also there are two types of love-selfish love, in which you love a person because they love you, and you do things for a person because u dont want them to stop loving you, because u like it when they love you, but the only person u really love is yourself, woaaaah, did u guys get that? lol Then there is real unconditional love where you would rather die than have the other die. Personally i want to have the second type of love with my hubby. s(b.) digs B-3, sorry to say this, but i think u should rethink your idea of love. I DO agree with some of the things you said tho, don’t worry… and i agree to disagree, i just want u to get the most out of love, thats all.

  • s(b.) February 21, 2008, 7:16 AM

    I am willing to disagree with what you wrote about your spouse being your whole world. Best friend, for sure! But where is G-d in the marital relationship if your spouse is your whole world? And if you (general you) have kids, your spouse can’t be your whole world, ’cause you’re both helping a little person grow.

    If I were married and I dropped dead tomorrow (chas v’shalom, but we’re dealing with the theoretical, here), I’d really want my spouse to be able to keep it together, even if he was very sad and the day to day was very hard for him, for a while — especially if he were to suddenly become a single father.*

    I believe I can share a life with someone without us having to enjoy all of the same things together all the time, or skipping doing things we like for the sake of doing something we like to do less with each other.

    In my past relationships, I’ve been happier than ever to see my boyfriend after I’ve had spent time doing something (like spending time with my teenage sister) that he might not have enjoy as much as (for example) spending time with friends or going for a ride (bike).

    I’ve also learned that shows are more fun if both people like the artist, and both parties are better off leaving tickets for those who will enjoy the show than to go for the sake of sharing company if they don’t like the artist. That was years ago.

    * (not that I anticipate dying anytime soon. but I do have friends who have said they don’t know what they’d do without their spouse, and the idea of feeling that way isn’t one with which I’m comfortable. to each his own.)

    I’m a firm believer in unconditional love, and [the idea of love based on need] isn’t one I seek in human relationships. I hope you get the most out of love, too, however you define, seek and share it, and I can appreciate your good intent.

    I find loving very easy — loving proximately, well, that can be difficult, sometimes. I think marriage requires (in addition to love) a certain amount of coping skills, commitment, patience, tenacity and a strong, shared vision.

    I admit I didn’t have a model of a functional marriage in the home of either parent until I was in the 9th grade [my folks split when I was two, so I have no recollection of their marriage, but they always co-parented respectfully and courteously].

    I have carefully noted positive examples of married couple relationships in my extended family and family-by-choice, over the years, and I don’t expect to ever stop learning about relationships. I don’t think marriage will always be easy, but I think if with the right person, it will totally be worth it.

    Disclaimer: I realize events in my recent personal life influenced my replies yesterday. It happens. But change is good, moving forward is good and gam zu l’tovah, even if yesterday didn’t always feel like that. My path is sound, even if I need to do a little clear-cutting, now and then.

  • Rach February 21, 2008, 7:55 AM

    I agree with a lot of what you said, including letting G-d into your relationship, i didnt mean ‘whole world’ as in-lets cut everyone else out of the picture, i meant that you think the world of them and that they can fill most of the needs you have. That you can spend tonnes of time with them and not get bored, grow together, inspire eachother I guess maybe i didn’t express myself too clearly.

    One thing i dont agree with is modelling marriage on bf/gf relationships. They are totally different, relationships are much less stable than marriage, so people generally hide their true colors in relationships. There are so many stories about people who date for years, then get married, and 2mths later are divorced. After marriage they both chill out and their true colors unexpectedly come out, ad the other is like ‘what? This isnt who i married, get me outta here’ im ot saying this is always the case, but there are many cases like this. Two yrs of dating, and only 2mths of marriage, it doesnt make sense…. but if u really think about it, it totally does!

  • heshman February 21, 2008, 12:48 PM

    SB do you have a really boring desk job? Anyway I agree mostly as well. Just because they are your best friend- doesn’t have to mean you enjoy all the same things. I do believe that core hobbies/interests should be similar. Such as a passionate music person like yourself should probably share that passion- although this concept has been argued many times on this here site. I say I want an outdoors girl and a lot of married commenters go to town on me. Trying to convince me that that wont matter in 50 years.

    But whats funny is that it will. I mean this is what makes me tick- as music is what makes you tick. The vast majority of ppl are not passionate about anything so its hard for them to relate I think.

    Rach: It goes both ways, I know ppl who have been married 25 years and lived together beforehand and I know plenty of frum regular kids who are 23 and divorced- the frum model for marriage has not been proven by any means. And although Nida sounds like a great invention I plan on having a wife that keeps it- it is not nec all honky dorry on the marriage front.

  • Rach February 25, 2008, 10:49 PM

    You spelled weather wrong. Nice blog BTW!

  • Rachel 2 February 25, 2008, 10:50 PM

    Sorry- that above comment was mine, didn’t realize there was someone else here with my name.

  • abandoning eden February 26, 2008, 9:04 AM

    hesh- I’m really into the music scene (as you know) and my boyfriend is not. He has similar tastes in music, but doesn’t like going to shows or festivals (especially not festivals- he is allergic to everything outdoors, and hates not being clean. He also hates big crowds of people). For shows, he gives me rides to some and picks me up afterwards (i don’t have a car), but has yet to come inside.

    But I really like it better that way. I go off to shows and festivals and hang out with my friends there. If he was there I would probably not enjoy it as much, because the thing I love most about festivals is being able to go off on random adventures with different groups of people, and running into old friends and catching up. And I wouldn’t be able to do that (as much) if he was there, cause I’d have to hang out with him the whole time.

    It might not work for everyone (and most people I know in the music scene are dating/married to other people in the music scene), but it works for us. I get to hang out with my friends without worrying about how much he’s enjoying himself, and he gets to stay home and play video games all weekend, which he can’t really do when I’m around. We also get a little break from each other, which is nice when you are together every single day (we quasi-live together, even though for the next couple of months we still pay rent on 2 different apartments).

    Maybe it’s cause I was previously engaged to a guy who WAS my whole world for 4 years (which means my world basically collapsed when we broke up), or maybe it was the 4 years of being single after that, when I started to love going off on random adventures by myself, but I agree with s(b); that your spouse/partner can’t be your entire world. We both have our own interests, and we have some of our own friends (although we have a lot of overlap in other interests and friends), and of course we each have our own careers, and we like it that way. Then again, we’re not married, so maybe something magically happens when you get married that will change our relationship. πŸ™‚

  • Camilla Z February 26, 2008, 9:53 AM

    Nothing will magically happen when you get married, it will be the same but both your personalities will only get stronger.

  • Hesh February 26, 2008, 11:19 AM

    Eden- great comment and I completely agree- it is kind of comforting that I know there are NO orthodox girls that Mountain Bike- as of yet I have found everything under the sun including climbers, skaters, backpackers, surfers, and kayakers but no mountain bikers. So I am comforted that I will have one activity to myself.

    I like the idea of mixing it up a bit and not having one person for everything- it seems like your partner should be different and not be exactly like you- with that said every girl I have gone out with that was exactly like me- it never worked out.

  • abandoning eden February 26, 2008, 1:51 PM

    yeah, i’ve found that the thing that is a lot more important than whether you have the same interests is whether you have the compatable lifestyles and goals, and whether you have similar expectations of how you are going to live.

    My ex-fiance and I broke up becuase I expected to go to grad school, and then go off to the middle of nowhere somewhere to be a professor (the academic job market is like that- to get a professor job you have to be willing to live pretty much anywhere), and he wanted to stay in the same place near his family and friends. We actually broke up the day after I started sending out applications to grad school.

    With my bf now, we have less in common in terms of out-of-home activites (like my ex used to go to music festivals and shows with me), but we both know that I’m going to be going off and doing my thing for probably a night every weekend or every other weekend, and in the summer i’ll be camping at festivals for weekends, and he is ok with that, and likes his time alone. other guys I have dated have thought it was weird, or insisted on coming along with me (which is ok with me, except that I think they did so out of insecurity rather than actual enjoyment of the music).

    My bf knows that I’m moving out of the area to wherever in a few years when I finish my PhD, and we’ve talked several times about it, and he is planning on coming with me. He isnt like me at all in terms of careers either- I have an MA and will soon have a PhD, am very focused on my career, etc., while he has a BA, works part time as a tutor to pay the bills and writes (essays and fiction) the rest of the time. But that is totally compatible with my lifestyle, cause I know he can follow me in a few years, since he doesn’t have some super amazing career holding him in one place. And he eventually wants to be a stay at home dad when we have kids- which is awesome for me, cause I totally am not the type to stay at home and raise kids all day (i would go insane), but I think parent care is the ideal in terms of child care.

    So yeah, we are pretty different in terms of activites, careers, education etc, but our lifestyles and expectations and future goals complement each other.

    We are similar on other things however…like we both love to have long debates on various topics (especially politics and sociology) and we both have similar political views, we both like watching cooking and nature TV shows and CNN and we both love cats (we have 3), we’re both atheists, we’re both pretty intellegent, etc. πŸ™‚

  • Boruh August 26, 2008, 9:10 PM

    I like to spend time with the girl eating snack or light meal at the table, just behind the fence of executive airport. Usually there are nobody else, you bring your own refreshments and it is always a surprise for her. Watching private jets landing takes your thoughts and eyes out of her body and redirects it into more comfortable and romantic mood. Girls are usually completely lost at this point, because they do not understand what is expected from them, and why you do not need to talk – just sit there and enjoy the view.

  • Elazar August 27, 2008, 2:39 PM

    This is my first time on Frumsatire.net. You’ll probably hear a lot more from me in the future. Interesting topic (and tangents, of course–I keep up with you on YouTube.)

    Abandoning Eden, I just read your blog for the first time too. I think it’s interesting how B goes to festivals now too. I’m curious to see whether that changes your dynamic.

    I’m definitely an advocate of significant others having similar interests. Granted, my last relationship ended basically because I was in denial about us not being identical.

    It’s not about being identical though, it’s about being compatible. I believe that people’s interests, hobbies, thought processes give a lot of insight into the way they operate. Of course being similar doesn’t automatically mean two people will end up together. But being different often seems to create incompatibility.

    I look at couples whose interests and modes of operation differ, “but things just work out anyway,” and compare them to couples who are fairly similar and very close. I just don’t see as deep a connection in the first kind of couple as the second. And I think things don’t “just work out” unless those people thrive on a lot of tension. That’s not me. I definitely look for the deep connection in relationships.

    As far as shidduch dates go, that’s not my area of expertise. I should really start a blog of my own. Maybe I will.

  • asian beauty July 25, 2013, 1:54 AM

    Hello there! Would you mind if I share your blog with my zynga group?

    There’s a lot of people that I think would really enjoy your content. Please let me know. Thanks

Leave a Comment