By now anyone who has a n ear to the wonderful world of Jewish Blogging must have heard about the recent banning of a sheitle store by the rosh yeshiva of Chaim Berlin, due to its pictures in the window of the store of women with sheitles on. No, this not a joke, I know its hard to believe but its true, even sheitles are coming under attack these days, next thing we know everyone wil have to build a mikvah in their own home because that is untznius as well.
Anyway the story goes as follows, some bochrim of the yeshiva had asked the owner of the store to remove the pictures to which he responded “this isn’t Binei Brak”. I could only think of a few serious reasons why the pictures were deemed untznius. Interesting because according to Blog in D Minors post (located about halfway down the page) wig shops in Boro Park efature the same pictures which even show more skin- clothed of course.
I have to say that at first I could not figure out why this great rabbi was banning the store I received the following observation from a dear friend of mine. He said that my original observation that the pictures were like “frum porn” and that the rosh yeshiva was in fear of “shichva zera levatala” (wasted seed) was totally ridiculous and if anyone could get their rocks off by looking at someones head shot wearing a sheitle- he should be inducted into some kind of hall of fame. He made note of the fact that these guys who were probably in the dating market would think that a frum woman had to look like that, and yes the women in the pictures are hotties, hot chanis- we dont know since the rest of their bodies are not visible and they might as well be like the pictures on frumster which really never reveal anything at all.
I must say that after reading the comments on the yeshiva world news article on the subject, I am somewhat scared of the unquestioning of many orthodox Jews. Many folks of the older generations will tell me that Daas Torah died with Rav Moshe zt”l and that nowadays many folks including gedolei yisrol are susceptible to power and control, this is a scary thought, considering that most people might listen to anything that someone of the highest torah stature may say- without actually agreeing with it.
What I really want to know is this, at what point is it wrong to question the motives or lack of compromise of a great Rabbis decision. This is not only in regards to this sheitle store boycott, but in regards to lots of other chumras and bans that seem to come down the pipelines every other week or so.
It seems that if there is no questioning involved that tyranny may be the eventual result…
Why the sheitle store is really being boycotted? These ideas didn’t make the list
The women clearly do not have their heads shaved;
They are too good looking to represent the true diversity of looks within the frum community and have been repealed by the politically correct police;
I did notice a hint of makeup:
Are they smiling, having fun, ASSUR!
I hear the women aren’t even Jewish, but really just wig models;
The pictures are in color and as you know red has been banned, but their lips are red;
They just have this untznius look to them;
I hear they are Lubavitchers;
33 responses so far ↓
1 Michael // Feb 3, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Sorta playing devils’ advocate here, but maybe it’s because the pictures are framed in a window on display? There is a difference between incidental exposure and “Hey! Look at me! I’m in the spotlight!!”.
I myself have been disturbed. for more years than I care to admit, with the sheitel advertisements on the inside of popular Jewish magazines. To me, these models are obviously made up to look attractive, and quite frankly they are wearing hair that looks sexier than most married ladies’ natural hair. Since the entire issue is one of ‘ervah, it makes no sense to me to cover up nakedness with something that resembles but looks better than nakedness.
As I said, that is my own personal belief and I do not go around attempting to impose it on anyone. However, I will put the point across by saying that, to me at least, it makes as much sense as covering up a woman’s torso with a shirt on which is printed the image of an unclothed female torso, possibly better looking than the one being concealed.
It would seem from your article (I’m out of the NY loop so I don’t have closer familiarity with the subject at head…er, hand) that this is only the Rosh Yeshiva of Chaim Berlin doing the banning. It isn’t unusual for an individual rov to ban something, but when he acts alone he runs the risk of only affecting his followers and his kehilla. It’s not a group of rabbonim or even a beis din. In our generation, with no single individual to whom all of us could point to as the gadol hador, it just doesn’t have the same effect.
There were few who DIDN’T hold by R’ Moshe when he made a psak, no matter how inconvenient. He usually had the other gedolim (R’ Aharon, R’ Ruderman, many more) behind him. Today, there are few who will hold by any single person as being on that stature, and the “unity behind the gadol” has been lost.
Hesh, I think my response is longer than your post!
2 heshman // Feb 3, 2008 at 10:51 pm
It may be, but I want to hear people opinions no matter how long they are. I completely agree with you about the frum magazines bit- it is totally correct, and it shouldn’t be like that, you can model a wig without a face even, all you need are those little Styrofoam head molds.
Anyway I have always thought this video on youtube was both good and bad- you see it shows women that they can be hot and sexy while wearing a sheitle- but at the same time it sends the wrong message about sheitles. The famous line you can look attractive without attracting comes to mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6bUAtrnHfU&feature=related
3 Left Flatbush // Feb 3, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Let’s ban women. Check out this article
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3501806,00.html
But in all seriousness I don’t get any of this.
4 anonymous // Feb 4, 2008 at 12:29 am
ok, so here’s my beef with sheitels:
1. they are waaay too expensive. one could buy a lifetime’s worth of tichels, vs. one sheitel, which requires more maintenance, and is HOT.
2. goyem, and even non-frum jews don’t recognize a sheitel. well, they might notice the wedding ring, but still…
3. a sheitel can be totally hotter than what’s underneath.
4. i (when i’m married) want to look hot to my husband — not be hot in a sheitel (temperature wise) and attractive to some, or a lot of, weirdo dudes.
if sheitels are supposed to be protecting you and your family, then why do they need to be so flashy? i also have a hard time understanding how these are tzunis(?) at least back in the day they kind of looked like mops but whatever, at least were recognizable. anyway, i don’t care for all the flashy ads in various media, but why have they chosen this store to crack down on? isn’t it kind of inconsistent?
5 eh? // Feb 4, 2008 at 1:17 am
aah
6 Left Flatbush // Feb 4, 2008 at 3:28 am
anonymous, you got it.
Question for you, why are you going to cover your hair at all?
7 cee // Feb 4, 2008 at 3:30 am
I think they just dont want their wives or future wives to see that store, because its so expensive, so they are trying to shut it down.
Oh, and they WISH those models were Lubavitch
8 heshman // Feb 4, 2008 at 3:42 am
I know I wish they were, good one Chaim too pricey so shut it down.
You would think that if people were so miserable about it the free market principle of catering to your customer would have set in.
9 anon // Feb 4, 2008 at 4:11 am
From the UK’s Daily Telegraph, I guess you can call it, “Tznius Machmirim”…
Female Muslim medics ‘disobey hygiene rules’
By Julie Henry and Laura Donnelly
Last Updated: 1:51am GMT 04/02/2008
Muslim medical students are refusing to obey hygiene rules brought in to stop the spread of deadly superbugs, because they say it is against their religion.
Women training in several hospitals in England have raised objections to removing their arm coverings in theatre and to rolling up their sleeves when washing their hands, because it is regarded as immodest in Islam.
Universities and NHS trusts fear many more will refuse to co-operate with new Department of Health guidance, introduced this month, which stipulates that all doctors must be “bare below the elbow”.
The measure is deemed necessary to stop the spread of infections such as MRSA and Clostridium difficile, which have killed hundreds.
Minutes of a clinical academics’ meeting at Liverpool University revealed that female Muslim students at Alder Hey children’s hospital had objected to rolling up their sleeves to wear gowns.
Similar concerns have been raised at Leicester University. Minutes from a medical school committee said that “a number of Muslim females had difficulty in complying with the procedures to roll up sleeves to the elbow for appropriate handwashing”.
Sheffield University also reported a case of a Muslim medic who refused to “scrub” as this left her forearms exposed.
Documents from Birmingham University reveal that some students would prefer to quit the course rather than expose their arms, and warn that it could leave trusts open to legal action.
Hygiene experts said last night that no exceptions should be made on religious grounds.
Dr Mark Enright, professor of microbiology at Imperial College London, said: “To wash your hands properly, and reduce the risks of MRSA and C.difficile, you have to be able to wash the whole area around the wrist.
“I don’t think it would be right to make an exemption for people on any grounds. The policy of bare below the elbows has to be applied universally.”
Dr Charles Tannock, a Conservative MEP and former hospital consultant, said: “These students are being trained using taxpayers’ money and they have a duty of care to their patients not to put their health at risk.
“Perhaps these women should not be choosing medicine as a career if they feel unable to abide by the guidelines that everyone else has to follow.”
But the Islamic Medical Association insisted that covering all the body in public, except the face and hands, was a basic tenet of Islam.
“No practising Muslim woman - doctor, medical student, nurse or patient - should be forced to bare her arms below the elbow,” it said.
Dr Majid Katme, the association spokesman, said: “Exposed arms can pick up germs and there is a lot of evidence to suggest skin is safer to the patient if covered. One idea might be to produce long, sterile, disposable gloves which go up to the elbows.”
10 heshman the prusta putz // Feb 4, 2008 at 4:39 am
did anyone expect that heshman the prusta bachelor who ogles women with the same geshmak that he fresses and pushes people around by kiddush parties would understand the fine sensitivities that these bnei torah have????
heshman fresses with his mouth and eyes alike. if he could swallow some kugel through his tuches, he would do it too. in front of everyone. heshman should shut up and continue to post about how to circumvent halachos which seems to be his expertise.
11 heshman // Feb 4, 2008 at 5:04 am
heshman the prusta putz : Hey whatever happened to being dan l’cav zchus? Jeez I think you have some kugel shoved up your tuchus, and it aint the soft potato kind, its the crunchy noodle kind that you can’t even cut with a fork.
Hey just because I admit to oogling women and you hide it by being holier than thou and probably watch gay porn behind your cubicle at work- doesn’t mean its bad.
For your information I do not oogle, nor do I stare, if you knew me well you would realize that 99% of the time this entire blog is a bloated imagination- albeit a very bloated one.
But thank you for the comment- now back to your gay porn, maybe its frum gay porn, who knows?
12 Left Brooklyn and never looked back // Feb 4, 2008 at 2:48 pm
go for it Hesh
13 to Commenter #10 // Feb 4, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Does is make you feel good to call people names? If you don’t like it, no one is forcing you to read it. You sling lashon hara like it’s going out of style. If you feel so strongly, why not sign your own name, link to your own blog? Would you know integrity if it knocked you over in the hallway? At least Hesh is Hesh — you may not agree with what he writes of posts in his videos, but he’ll do it as himself and admit he’s human. People pretending they’re perfect is a HUGE problem, ’cause when people need help, they’re afraid to ask for it, ’cause they think no one else understands how they feel. A chillul Hashem isn’t admitting you’re human. A chillul Hashem is creating a society in which one feels like one can’t ask for help for fear that no one else would understand, or that they’ll be stigmatized for being different (special ed issues, for example).
s (b.)
14 jennthejewess // Feb 4, 2008 at 6:11 pm
You KNOW that 90% more people have been seeing this display since they called attention to it. Im sure tons of men and women have purposely gone to check it out (myself included- sad i kno but i was walking by anyway). Had they nott made such a big deal most ppl wouldnt have even noticed it.
15 miriam // Feb 4, 2008 at 9:23 pm
I feel i can’ t speak on this issue because I’m a woman. To me those pictures don’t look provocative — but she definitely tries with the head tilt!
I guess if it were hunks of chunky men at the window maybe i’d protest. a bit.
16 heshman // Feb 4, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Ok thank you Mr. Gathering of the vibes- and a great festival at that. A fellow jam band fan, welcome to the party.
Jenn you know we may be dealing with a conspiracy, think about how much more money he’s making now and all that from free negative advertising. Pretty good eh, I must say he’s real smart going through with this- great for business.
Ah Miriam- the head tilt with the hand on the hips look eh- but they didn’t show the whole body so we will never know.
17 LOL Funny // Feb 5, 2008 at 1:39 am
You really are a funny guy - keep on blogging!
18 Mindy // Feb 6, 2008 at 7:29 am
Whoa, commenter number ten- that comment was WAY off line!!! What kind of ahavas Chaveirim or da likaf zchus do you have???
aNd for your information, if you would read the blog, you would see that he HAS those fine sensitivities of a ben TOrah. Are we all perfect? Do we all follow what we know to be true? The greatest distance in the world is between the mind and the heart. A person can know one thing and act another. It doesn’t mean he’s a hypocrite- it means he’s HUMAN.
Additionally, your sense of judgement of other people should be fine-tuned enought to rezlize what Hesh himself said: “99% of the time this entire blog is a bloated imagination.”
If you read the post, you will actually notice that he does not make any direct confrontation about the ban, and in fact actually calls the Rosh Yeshiva of Chaim Berlin a “great rabbi”.
One thing I’ve learnt in life is, “When in doubt
19 Mindy // Feb 6, 2008 at 7:31 am
, “judge the other person *favourably*.” And in case you haven’t noticed, it’s actully one of the precepts of the Torah which you calim Hesh does not have a part of.
And can I say something else? A true ben Torah would NEVER use the coarse and crude language that you used, nor speak in such an offensive and belittling way.
20 Me again // Feb 6, 2008 at 7:32 am
, “judge the other person *favourably*.” And in case you haven’t noticed, it’s actully one of the precepts of the Torah which you calim Hesh does not have a part of.
And can I say something else? A true ben Torah would NEVER use the coarse and crude language that you used, nor speak in such an offensive and belittling way.
21 For the rest of it // Feb 6, 2008 at 7:59 am
A note upon completing the comment: This comment is rather out of the typical of this forum, and perhaps not fitting to the title, which i, after all, frum “satire”, but I feel that a serious comment is sometimes in order after all this cynicism. Life is, after all, a balanc, and too much of anything is not a good thing.
To Michael and anon number four I agree completely. I think that a woman who truly wants to save herself only for ehr husband will not want to wear a beautiful sheitel as well. I think they’re ridiculous, and self-defeating, and would be embarrassed to walk around with one. I don’t blame the women who wear them because it is very, very difficult to go agianst society. “What? You’re becomng a rebetzin?!” are the type of comments you’d get if you walked out with a scarf or hat and eveyone around you wore a wig.
It’s not easy being good these days….
The mashol with the imaged t-shirt is excellent.
To anon number nine who posted the y-net article about not showng women’s pictures in the media, and in general:
Don’t get upset about it. It’s because women are too special to be shown to everyone. “Kul Kevuda Bas Melech Penima.” The beauty of a woman is only found when it is hidden. As Heshman said- when you see a woman all uncovered up, it’s kinda… flat. Why do you htink we have the laws of Family Purity? WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING ALL THE TIME, IT LOSES ITS FLAVOR. Our whole world is upside down in that. We think that by giving ourselves everything our base desires want, we’ll be happy. Really, we will only be happy when we have earnt our reward. That’s the reason God put us down on this earth, man- so we could be fufilled when we go up to Him.
And you think that by having women easily accesible and at your fingertips, you’ll be happy? You’ll throw up. Think about what really makes you happy in your life in general and you’ll see what this means.
Admitedly, like I said before, the greatest distance is between the mind and the heart. I think that deep down, all of us *know* (or, more precisely, *feel* or *sense*) the way that is correct for us to live our lives. Hopefully at this point we’ve grown beyond looking at our religion and the various details that come along with it as being an obligation and somethng we’re doing to please the rabbis and our old fogey elders. Hopefully we realize that these ways of life are really for our benefit. And don’t think that when you mock it it isn’t to run away from something inside of you…
Like I said before, none of us are perfect. We’re all trying to live our lives and be the best people we can be. Sometimes we forget our goals in the daily grind. We lose our enthusiasm and inspiration, and many times we even lose sight of ourselves, and the people we once wanted to be. Think for yourself! And truly for yourself. Don’t think with the mind the cynical, all permitting mind the twenty-first century has molded into you. Rather, think with the pure and good neshama, the CHELEK ELOKA MiMAL that you have within you, the par t of Hashem that guides your decisions and will eventually be returned to its Maker in a pure and holy place.
22 Shmuli // Feb 7, 2008 at 4:54 am
So now sheitles are assur too?!
Are women going to go wearing those horrible grocery bags on their heads instead?
Oh, where will it end?
23 heshman // Feb 7, 2008 at 4:24 pm
It will end when women are banned completely from the public sphere- which may sound far fetched but i wouldn’t put it past some people.
24 WebGirl // Feb 8, 2008 at 5:22 am
To all the Comment-makers who are”playing devil’s advocate” or defending this is in some way:
1) I get the idea of tznius and of being “hidden.” I completely embrace the idea of Jewish feminine modesty. Sold. But this extends WAY beyond modesty. The photos of the women in the store window did not show any body parts other than a head. And the head was modestly covered with a wig. If you are going to argue and say that the women had alluring looks on their faces, please take out a Gemarrah and show me where it says that an attractive woman is immodest by her very existence? If you erase a woman’s face from her culture you are attacking her humanity, not her immodesty. This is the difference between, lehavdil, the Moslem burka and an Orthodox’s woman sheitl. This is well beyond the scope of tznius.
2) With all respect intended toward the Rosh Yeshiva, to take away a person’s parnassah because he displayed some arguably decent and appropriate photos in his store windows is unconscionable. Seriously. If he had put up a picture of woman who was inappropriately dressed, you could possibly make the argument. But to take away his livelihood, to take food out of his kids’ mouths because he advertised sheitls in a way that the Rosh Yeshiva didn’t like….sorry, uh uh, there is NO excuse for that.
25 heshman // Feb 8, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Web Girl 100% agreed, the tznius patrol is definitely out to remove the women from the public sphere. Are we trying to revert back to the middle ages?
Who is the be all say all on what tznius actually is- it is one big gray area. If it was some sort of walled community where you lived by the rules- thats one thing- but its Flatbush man!
26 Wig Store Banned: This is the stuff Horror movies are made from… | Law // Feb 10, 2008 at 5:06 am
[...] You can also get some great ranting on a new blog, Frum Satire. [...]
27 sheva // Feb 12, 2008 at 6:30 am
Hey i think i have that sheitel third one on the left,and they told me it was a one of a kind!
28 Misanthrope // Feb 13, 2008 at 6:11 am
The saddest thing is that frummies take this ban seriously, and I’m not just talking about chaim berlin idiots.
29 Powermetal Head // Feb 13, 2008 at 6:21 am
I must be so out of the yeshiva world news that this is the first place I heard about this story. If you ask me, this story will just go down in the archives with indian hair, shidduch crisis, water bugs, monsey kashrus bananza scandal, etc
Every once in a while they gotta sort of refresh our memories that they have the power to destroy. Keeps the frum community uptight and wondering what will happen next. Kind of like betting on which rabbi will give the birth control heter. Isn’t that a cool chanuka game?
30 G3 // May 30, 2008 at 1:59 pm
“And you think that by having women easily accesible and at your fingertips, you’ll be happy? ”
Dear God, yes, PLEASE! I’ve been trying to convince my wife that letting me hook up with her freinds is a good thing, but she doesn’t seem to be buying it…
Seriously though, this is disturbing. Its another example of the chumra creep. I remember seeing an ad last year asking for tzedakah for a family with ten kids whose father was for some reason not able to support them. All of the girls’ faces were heavily blurred, even little kids who couldn’t have been older than two or three. This has nothing to do with women being special. It is the perception, hammered into every yeshiva guy, that women are evil succubuses who will cause you to sin if you so much as look at them - and by extension, at a picture.
When I had an office job, I had a picture of my wife and my daughter on my desk. The picture of my wife was from our wedding (this was about a year after we had gotten married) and she was wearing a tznius heavy gown. Yet a chasidishe guy who woked in the office asked me to take away the picture becuase he didn’t want to see a woman if he didn’t have to. He was a nice guy, and didn’t push it beyond asking a couple of times, but still. There was nothing seductive about the picture. Yet this guy seemed to feel there was something wrong with seeing a woman that he didn’t absoloutly have to.
Hesh, I think you’re right. The way this is going, frum communities of the future are going to resemble Afghanistan under the Taliban. Everyone must have beards, no music, and women, on those rare occasions when they absoloutly must leave the house, will be covered head to toe.
31 heshman // May 30, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Indeed- I hear the potato sack will be the next big tznius fashion statement- great comment- by the way
32 Anony // Jun 24, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Webgirl,
I can guarantee you that the Rosh Yeshiva would arrnage for Tzedakah for that store owner if he was not able to make money w/o those pictures. That’s not the issue. The issue is that he felt they were inappropriate and made a stand.
If you really think tzinis nowadays is so widely kept and these typees of stiff stands don’t need to be made, then you have major issues
33 heshman // Jun 24, 2008 at 3:34 pm
These types of stiff hands don’t uinderstand both sides of a story.
Did you think about all the people in the neighborhood, Flatbush mind you, that would not wear a shietle in the first place if it were not a good looking alternative to towels or scarves.
Have they stopped to think about the fact that they were just plain nuts and there was nothing untznius about the stores pictures?
Have you lost your mind?
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