I remember when I got my first hat, my father and I went to Kova Hats in Brooklyn a store a buddy of his from yeshiva owned. We walked in and after looking at one hat walked right out, turned on our heels before little more then “vus machs du” could be uttered. My father cursed under his breath about the price of an over sized yarmulke that gave a little protection from the rain, but costs 20 times as much as a decent umbrella. I did bring up that most umbrellas are junked in the garbage after the storm turns it inside out and that this was unlikely to happen to a well constructed fedora, but he just snarled and said “then you have to buy the rain protectors for it.” I had no idea why I was actually getting a hat, I was almost 14 years old and about to embark on the adventure of my life. I had gotten accepted to a yeshiva, a real yeshiva, in Rochester New York and for some reason- I sure as hell had no clue, everyone wore hats there.
We ended up at sears in Brooklyn where for $28 dollars I received my first black hat, a small brimmed hat that looked like something a preacher would wear. It had a red feather in it too, which I thought was cool. I would own one other hat in my career of hats, a green hat that made me look like a gangster and that I found on clearance in Marhsalls for 15 bucks. I have no idea where these hats are- but I remember hat shopping well.
I remember in the beginning of high school I had no idea why we were wearing hats or how to correctly wear my hat. I can just see that first day of shachris with my hat falling off my head while all the other experienced hat wearers just sat there shaking back and forth with those larger hats perched precariously on their heads waiting to fall but never actually falling. There were a few grey hats and even one straw hat in the mix, but mostly plain black. I figured the black hat was like accessorizing, you needed it match a majority of your outfits and since most guys wore black pants and jackets, they wanted the hat to go with their outfits. Later on in life I realized that the Orthodox Jewish hat market was run by folks like Henry Ford who wanted to limit the color of their product to black and only when the less religious hat wearers fought for a change did they produce grey and straw hats, though those are still hard to find- since hat dealers do not make as much profit on those and tend to put them in hard to reach places near the shoe shine and tefilin finisher.
The wide brim was more popular on shabbos, when the pimping guys would walk in wearing the late 1990’s yeshiva guy outfit, there was only one outfit that people wore. 3 or 4 button suites were all the rage, wide pinstripes, with one of those white Tommy Hilfiger shirts with the blue inside the collars and an obscenely bright tie. I think the bright tie was so that they could differentiate and profile each other. Because without that bright tie yeshiva guys kind of took on the Asian Effect- you simply could not tell them apart. Whenever I said this, since I was a novice with regards to yeshiva guys and hats, the Rabbis would give me speech on how diverse the yeshiva community was. They, similar to Asians who claim there are differences would point out that some guys wore Borcilino, Roche or Stetson hats with wide or more narrow brims depending on how much rain water they were trying to catch. Some guys wore their hat brims up while others wore them down, I was told the ones who wore them down- were always in a rush to learn, while the ones who wore them up induced drag so they could be more lazy and that I should take note for future shidduch purposes. I of course had no idea what a shidduch even was, though I still told my Rabbi that they all looked the same- like trying to differentiate between Taiwanese and Korean- nearly impossible unless you immerse yourself in the culture. It would be years until I could tell the difference between yeshiva guys and even then I had to use more then my hat profiling. Belt buckle thickness has a ton to do with whether the guy is a hocker, hocker’s love those huge belt buckles and never buy reversible belts, while the hardcore learners have worn and frayed belts. The hardcore learner types tend to change and wash their clothing less often and therefore have many cholent and chrain stains to prove their long hours slaving over a piece of gemara while scarfing down left over cholent that got all over their shirt while they shook to the rhythm of the blatt they happened to be on.
Later in life, after a few years in yeshiva, after I figured out all the hat tricks- even those ones to flip the hat with one hand and put it on your head. Or that one where you stand next to a mirror and make believe you can levitate your hat, as you bend spoons with your eyes. After all of these great experiences I learned that there was more to the hat then meets the eye, kind of like my favorite show as a kid. It was when I left high school and entered the real world, and it can be so cold I learned, that the hat meant more then protection from the rain and snow of upstate New York.
This period after high school, when I threw away my hat, actually I left it in the coat room and never saw it again, this period I learned something very important about hat wearers. There are a million different ways to wear and reason to wear a hat.
The number one reason I discovered that people wore hats, was not the double head covering of which I was force fed during high school, nor was it the respect thing. Nope, it was chronic baldness amongst young men. I first noticed that many people who were not even religious wore hats, and then folks who didn’t believe in the hats ability to save your ass from hairy situations like being stuck on the side of Route 17 in the Catskills, or being pulled over by a cop and claiming you’re a Rabbi- wore the hat as well. These folks would not even be classified as frum yet they donned those fuzzy disks in the name of hair club for men. In fact not only did it improve their shidduch chances in the looks department they started getting more suggestions before they could explain why they were wearing the hats, and hence you have this whole class of black hatters that have absolutely no black hat philosophies.
Then came the folks who were sort of black hat, since there is no demographic for hat wearing folks who wear cowboy hats, grey hats, sombreros and straw hats. I never understood why sites like frumster had no classification for the non-black hat, hat crowd. Like there was some sort of ongoing conspiracy to make sure only black hats dominated the market.
Then you have the black hat crowd that switches to baseball caps in the summer. These are the folks who go on day trip sot places like Lake George and the Baseball Hall of Fame- out of the Jewish Catskills they venture and then they break out of their penguin jumpsuits and don the striped polo shirt usually containing blue and orange, tucked into black pants with white sneakers and baseball hat. Since these are such progressive people their wives are also wearing the baseball hat as well as the children. This is the outfit for black hat folks who fear Antisemitism in the far reaches of upstate New York where anything could happen in the uninhabited terrain. Of course any one can tell these folks are Jewish purely from the caravan of strollers and children that usually follows and from the trail of garbage that gets dumped out of the strollers. The yakking in Yiddish on the cell phone doesn’t help either, nor does the random Jewish Geography with other escaped Penguins help their case. Anyone passing by a train of kids dressed alike in sailor outfits pouring out of a huge van attracts attention, if they aren’t black they are Jewish or Mormon- or maybe one of those on the fringe Amish families. I always want to walk up to the polo shirt and baseball cap crowd and say “dude your not fooling anybody.”
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{ 65 comments… read them below or add one }
Most popular baseball cap logos… Tar heels (must have been some major sale on them years ago), Yankees, the preferred team of the yeshivish everywhere. What else?
If U view old photos of various yeshivas eg Lubavitch, Torah Vodaas. al the young men are wearing short brimmed hats. When did the Al Capone/Bugsy Seigel look come into vougue in the frum world. And now in 2007 the wider the brim, the more frum
I like the way the hat looks. I dont know what it is but something about the bent down makes guys look so hot and sexy. My opinoin has nothing to do with frumness or anything like that, its a matter of taste I guess. Oh, and dont forget about all the store logos like Gap and Old Navy.
Funny, MW, ive heard girls say that before. Cant understand it personally, but then im not a girl!
I think it makes them look sharp. I dont know, its a matter of taste. Oh, and based on your comment, (out of curiosity and randomness) since your not a girl and I am totaly asking this on a non personal level, what do you or guys find attractive in a girl.
I can’t understand the pairing of the white sneakers and the black outfit. Totally retarded.
MW, please do not hijack the thread. Get your own blog.
Why can’t people ever focus on topic at a time?
All girls already know most guys like on girls. We like them in their birthday suites or close to it.
This post was making fun of hat wearers by the way- not about what folks find sexy on each other.
“I always want to walk up to the polo shirt and baseball cap crowd and say “dude your not fooling anybody.””
yeah, this is what i always wanted to do whenever i saw yu guys on the uptown A train. who did they think they were fooling?
There’s this guy I learn with once-twice a week and he wears hasidish-like garb (a funny shiny house-coat thing) on shabbos with a bowler-like hat and yet he goes to the black hat Yeshiva to daven. How do you explain/classify that?
He likes to daven and not talk about nursing homes and stocks at the bima. Maybe he likes the fact that at the yeshiva they have those little emails to read during laining. Maybe he likes the clean shaven men at the yeshiva? Maybe he likes young boys? Maybe theres a great pizza store by the yeshiva- who knows. Just another reason to be dan lcav zchus.
one more instance where frum jews are like blacks – they are the only people to wear hats nowadays
and MW, I would really like to answer your question with the utmost detail and clarity, but I fear we may get our heads bitten off in the process, so if you really do want my opinion, you can email me
Hesh, If tzivo and MW hook up, you should get shadchun money.
G-d knows you can use it.
whoops sorry Hesh I see you alraedy made that point yourself. Maybe thats why I thought of it..
Psychotoddler had a guest post on DovBear about buying “Black” Hats for his sons for their yeshiva.
all i have to say is, gray and straw hats represent!
I asked that question completely on a random and sper of the moment thought, I was not trying to change the subject or make a new one. I accidently pressed submit-if you will. But if you still want to answer, thats fine with me-just know that I am the black hat type. ; )
Steg,
I know you don’t like to toot your own horn but you had an excellent post on hats.
Link ‘em up.
MW Im also a black hatter, I just never thought there was anything attractive about them! After your revelation maybe I shall take to promenading in my borsalino more often
In answer to your question, theres so much I could say about it that I would incur the wrath of everyone here for hogging the comment page and changing the subject – ’sigh’ what to do?
Heshy – how about a post about those mashed in chabad hats with the three corners and their origins in Chabad lore?
“But if you still want to answer, thats fine with me-just know that I am the black hat type. ; )”
So stereotypical.
Ive always been looking for a girl with ‘good hormones’
I am not stereotyping, I was just stating that it is my type-I like yeshiva guys. Anyway, I wasnt talking to you.
But the whole point of this blog is to create an open atmosphere for all the stereotypes people create in their heads and throw them out on the page. I mean 90% of the posts are stereotyping someone, right?
No heads will be bitten off- the conversation may flow wherever it goes. You may drool over men in hats.
By the way I have talked about the mashed in hats before- you have to search through the Lubavitch category on the bottom of the page. Tzivo fel free to continue your conversation and answer the question it could get interesting.
Make up your mind Hesh. Also, I would post this stuff on my blog but I am having trouble with it. Oh, and dont get me wrong-I like ALL types of guys, but I am looking for the black hat (bent down lol) type for a shidduch.
Hey peeps…I see Im missing the action! So yeah I will agree with MW (shocking i know) that eventho im not specifically looking for a black hatter- there is definitely something attractive abt them…I feel like maybe Hesh u can create a forum somewhere on the blog that ppl who want to just discuss stuff and break away from the topic can talk- it is a bit annoying wen we get totally off topic
Also MW- maybe u really shouldnt care so much what guys are attracted to- if u find out (which is stupid cuz diff guys like diff things and ull do things that one guy likes but others dont) u will pro start to do things and change the way u are or dress to impress some guys…which is really bad in the long run…MW u want someone who likes u for u not because u start appearing acaertain way to be attractive
Ha, ok-first of all I made a blog already to be able to just discuss things. Anything. but I am having trouble with it. Also, I am sooooo not like what you just said jen. I am always myself-especialy around guys. I dont act a certain way based on ehat a guy thinks. If he likes who I am then fine, and if he doesnt then fine too. I do not act differently based on what a guy likes or says. I am NOT that type of person at all. I was just curiouse what guys in general find attravtive. I wouldnt act upon what they say, I was just curiouse.
OK…i wasnt trying to beat u up…just wanted to give some general good advise…
Thanks, but I am not a child. LOL! I do have my head on my shoulders.
Okay people, don’t shoot me now, but I also think black hats can look sexy on a man, but not all men of course. However I do not date blackhatters as they seem to be too uptight for me. I might accept a blackhat shidduch if I am really bored and need some entertainment. lol.
Please who get off the topic should be whipped. lol.
Ok i get it but sometimes when you write things it doesnt seem that way
I had the coolest hat ever!
I had a Huckle™ It was the cheapest hat available at the time (Short of an Immitation Cahrlie Chaplin hat)
But..The huckle suited me just right.. I was a wild buy and the huckle was able to survive anything.
• A train pass right over it.
• A bottle of coke was emptied on it.
• We played an improvised version of spin the bottle with it.
• It survived a date with a fat chick
It was my rain hat – snow hat – pimp hat and more… I loved it.
Until i went to prison and my cellmate gave me an option of either giving him the hat or bending over and answering to the name Shaniqua.
Well everything but the last part is true.
Great Post Hesh. Keep’em coming.
Its funny how all the woman on this blog stated their opinions, yet none of the men answered my question. You dont have to, but I just thought it was funny.
Black Hattitude.
http://www.jewishjukebox.com/RealAudio/698/23.ram
MW:
in a physical sense?
MW, sorry I haven’t been by the computer so didnt see how things have been progressing.. Now that we have recieved permission from our kind host, I will gleefully elaborate.
Of course that is very subjective, but for the most part guys tend to like slim girls, who are erm.. well proportioned, have even, balanced features and who are well groomed. I completely disagree with you, jen, I’m sorry, but I think that if you are looking to attract a guy, then you should get clued up on what most guys find attractive. Seems logical to me. And common sense does not play a part. Girls often have no idea of what guys like. So many times have I been told that such and such a girl is ‘gorgeous’ ‘pretty’ and ’stunning’ only to get that sinking feeling once again as aforementioned ’stunner’ comes into view. My sister, for example, has absolutely no idea. Ive tested her on magazine models. For that reason, I will not give an opinion on a guys looks, simply because I dont know what girls like. Matt Damon for example is widely regarded as hot. Although I do happen to share a passing resemblance to the man 
I do not consider him particularly handsome. But then, Im not a girl, and therefore not in a position to pass judgement. So what I say is, yes, do get advice from guys, it is the sensible thing to do!
are great. A hint of perfume is good but not too much. The key is restraint. And a pleasant smile! Truth be told, when it comes to dress, each guy is different, and some will prefer the hippy look and no make up (few and far between, personally I hate the shlumpy tiyul-girl look), but generally speaking, the more put-together, the more attractive you’ll be seen as.
The first thing I find attractive about a girl is… good looks
Personally I like the smart look. Make-up thats not too heavy, well fitted, color coordinated clothes that flatter. Funny that I think hats can look really good on women, not baseball caps, but cool stylish berets and funky caps. I find girls often overlook their shoes, but nice shoes or boots
However when it comes to your personality, I agree that you must be yourself and not try to fit someone elses mold. I do find arrogance a big turn off, so if a girl is arrogant, I would want her to act the way she is so I can see what I’m getting before its too late! Intellect, good command of English bereft of frummy cliches is always a turn on. It gives a cultured impression. I talk of impressions because when you first meet someone you are affected most by the way they present themselves, but a girl who is relaxed and takes things in an easygoing fashion always scores highly for me.
Firstly
Also what i meant was- if u ask a guy what he or “guys” finds attractive and he says- long blonde hair, blue eyes, size 2, fitted clothes etc…and the girl decides too go on a crazy diet, grow and dye her hair and get blue contacts (ok so its a lil extreme but u get the point)- its crazy to change urself for a guy esp since the next guy u ask will say he like dark curly hair, dark skin and a more curvy figure….
Thats really what i meant because i think its pretty obvious that basically everyone finds a good looking, well groomed, well put together, well spoken, good personality person, attractive.
that “firstly” wasnt supposed to be there
You’d be surprised. To many girls this is not obvious at all.
Ok in response to Jenns comment I may be inclined to create a forum that will be linked to at the top of the page- I am debating it- since it may take away from some of the post comments.
Jewlab: Was your hat “shabbos riot” approved? Could it withstand the rigors of an all out stone throwing shabbos riot on Kikar Shabbat?
You would think they would have hechshers on hats to determine the status you will receive when wearing it.
I also think men look sexy in black hats,
Maybe thats why all the folks on the casual encounters craigslist page seem to be black hatters.
This is my first blog post ever. Google sent me here when i was looking for Subsationals number. Cool blog, never really got into this stuff. I see there are regular bloggers and its like a cute little community. Ill try adding my thoughts to your postings.
I think a hat is very classy and when i wear one it feels more of a special occasion. Thats why i only wear it Shabbos and weddings etc. I hate the big ones im a big fan of the mob-like hats.
Welcome yesnomaybe
Guys only look good in black hats if they have a HOT body!!!!!
Ok, first of all, Genghty-I dont think that is true. Maybe for you, but I’ve seen sooo many times that even a guy with a shall we say not so hot body put on a hat and it made them look better. He looked more put together, thinner (for some reason) and smarter (again, for some reason). It is my opinion but I think the hat just does it! Oh, and this all applies to the “bent down” I dont like anything else. lol!!
Second-Tzivo, thanks for answering. It was a little too general, but at least it wasnt shallow. I liked it though because that is me, but most pple are not arrogant, so I think you should say more on personality because then it looks like you are reaaallly NOT picky. LOL!!
I think you have been conditioned by a life of living in Brooklyn to think that guys in hats are sexy. Just look at how they condition men in California to like women who are Anorexic. I think it has to do with where we grow up.
Hats DO make men look sexier because it covers their bald spots and adds height to them- since m any women complain of Jewish men being short and bald it works out well dont ya think.
MW do you mean more on what kinda personality I’m looking for?
Jacobs right I want shidduch money if you people get married.
What do you think about sheitels guys? I think they are soo unsexy. The biggest turn off. In a way its good cos I dont have any desire to look at married women because I keep thinking about the fake mop on top of their heads. Even custom sheitels look like wigs
Oh dude don’t ruin it thats the next post
so sorry man i thought the ppl might want a preview
heshy you can have a seat at the top table. and take as much food back with you as you want.
since it was requested, HERE is my post on wearing a hat
Sheitels are the biggest turn off ever invented by jews (After baldheaded multi-child bearing women, Circumcision, Skirts, and Tights)
Imagine this:
Your getting a BJ from a women with a sheitel, your holding her head and enjoying the moment…
You close your eyes and think about the millions of yiddish neshomos being ejected from your body that very moment…
You open your eyes – and shes gone!! your holding the frggin sheitel in your hands….but shes already in the bathroom fixing her makup and calling your wife.
Damn – Sheitels suck!
I do want to know more about personality, but I wasnt limiting you to my question. It is for any guy on this blog. I want to know what men in general think are attractive qualities in a woman. And you are right about the whole sheitel thing-though if the girl didnt have nice hair in the first place, she could be better off with a sheitel. Oh, and Tzivo-are you looking for someone who will wear a sheitel, cuz if yes then I feel bad for her (and you) because you wont be attracted to her. Thats sad.
They are annoying, but I’ll live! LOL!
I like guys who don’t wear shirts with a
black HAT!!!
Like frum strip clubs eh?
man someone shot my hat with a bb gun in high school turned me off to hats
the one guy i went out with who wore a black hat was a total fiasco… since then, forget it, absolutely no black hats they really do make a guy more uptight. and you cant even see wat the bloke looks like with the wide brim whether its bent up or down.
jana, as you said, youve only been out with one black hat. Surely not enough to form an opinion on.
When I was younger (like 12/13) I could never tell how old a guy was between the ages of 11-14. So if he was wearing a black hat, i’d get all excited cuz i knew he was ‘old enuf’
then as i got a little older, i thought the hat pushed back look was cute- like they do so they can fit their tefilin. i quickly grew out of that tho, and think they look weird.
Last friday night there was a guy in shul wearing what appeared to be the jewish version of a ten gallon hat. It was a basic fedoria but it had the tallest crown on a hat I have ever seen in a Jewish setting. It looked really weird. Is this a style now?
MW theres a message for you on the public forum
Bottom line – My hat is bigger then yours.
tzivo nishta – i only DATED one black hatter… i’ve met and conversed (or tried to) with many more seeing as i live in an essentially black hat community
So with black hats is size everything? Is it like black hat envy or something?
By the way I don’t know if any of you have seen- but I wrote a post a while back on Streimels and Spudicks and their unique abilities. It is under the best posts column or you can click here http://frumsatire.wordpress.com/2007/02/07/streimels-vs-spudicks-you-decide/
at the end of the day… its just a damn hat *cringe* dont stone me